tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post2235152641196224377..comments2023-09-28T09:00:44.681-10:00Comments on Wind Lines: Don't be a Lawn DartUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-70966157243301375562010-12-03T07:14:05.688-10:002010-12-03T07:14:05.688-10:00Thanks Thom for posting and drawing the good advic...Thanks Thom for posting and drawing the good advice out of our most experienced pilots. <br /><br />I especially like Don's ideas of practicing landings. Good excuse to fly more :-). Especially on those days when it's light, and not a sure thing to soar -- say a nice sledder from Cactus or Kahana -- good chance to practice a low-wind landing that could at least approximate a back-valley landing (although perhaps not simulating the ground effect wind gradient so well). <br /><br />Lots of nil wind (and low air density) landings in Utah -- come visit!sandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03062704709975780035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-69140846605186810392010-12-02T15:31:20.845-10:002010-12-02T15:31:20.845-10:00Great write up. I have also ventured deep in the ...Great write up. I have also ventured deep in the valley and have found great lift above the tunnels BUT depending on the direction one side or the other of the valley is in the rotor. Getting out is often more difficult than getting in. I have escaped from being very low and would just remind all of us the the best landing is often further away from where we want to be and don't get set in the mind set that you have to push out to get to a good LZ. Often the best LZ you can reach will be behind you and may require a bit of a hike. A long hike is always better than a short ambulance ride :)<br /><br />Keep the lessons coming they make us all smarter.<br /><br />See you guys soon <br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177723804823444250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-62283729160769993782010-12-01T15:27:50.478-10:002010-12-01T15:27:50.478-10:00Nuff daid already, but I like to either flap my wi...Nuff daid already, but I like to either flap my wing or throw on some big ears until im ready to flare. Although some say that big ears can be dangerous low if you get frontal?<br /><br />I have found that canyons never work to get you up, only peaks and ridge lines. Also going xc is all about connecting the dots, wether its high in the sky following the clouds or low and working the terrain. All great xc pilots have a limp. If your not willing to risk injury, then you shouldn't be flying xc?<br /><br />While your venturing out xc you have to constantly adjust your flight plan to include reachable lz's.<br /><br />I will never venture to the next waypoint before I have a bomb out plan. Then after I pass that point i'm already looking for my next potential safe lz or beer store...<br /><br />You can practice all the landing options you want, but I say "get your head outa the clouds and think before you leap".<br /><br />ReaperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-61967539949535710582010-12-01T09:50:09.388-10:002010-12-01T09:50:09.388-10:00To clarify yet further, it's not that we need ...To clarify yet further, it's not that we need to automatically put our brakes up as we descend behind a tree line - we just need to be super sensitive to the fact that our wing needs a minimum airspeed to stay over our head, and be on the lookout for signs that our wing is hungry for a bit more speed as we lose the headwind. A given amount of brakes in a headwind may be too much as we drop into an area where the wind is blocked. We need to take the time to learn the feedback from our new wings, to get an idea of what that stall point feels like, during normal landings and toplandings. Toplandings are especially good for this. We can also develop a very good feeling for this stall point if we ground handle a lot, whether in a park or on the hill.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249789335111913420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-87522443933906603402010-12-01T09:41:22.348-10:002010-12-01T09:41:22.348-10:00Wow, while I was entering first comment Alex and R...Wow, while I was entering first comment Alex and Ray chimmed in with more info. Up to 6 cents now.<br /><br />The Bowl is a nono in my book from now on. Last time I crossed so high that when I did venture over the tunnels it did not even matter, this time I was just below the radar tower and thought the opposite edge would give me a little more. Well we all know that did not work. Got lower and had to push out.<br /><br />Alex, yup the landing issue was right on the trees took my wind out, still had some brake left for a flare at end but should have let up more when dropping behind tree line. Light brake and speed is something we all need to practice before going to thermal landing sites. <br /><br />Ray, would love to try some spin landings. Have only seen a few in tight spots, one by Cheri up at Tantlus was perfect. I will read up on those the next few days but Kahana sand and an air mattress but be the call.<br /><br />Thanks Again<br />Keep the pennies coming.<br />Looks like we will be reading about flying for the next few days.Thomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07508629374134042936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-23248160907831594652010-12-01T09:28:21.757-10:002010-12-01T09:28:21.757-10:00Thanks Jeff for the inputs and I should correct th...Thanks Jeff for the inputs and I should correct that did not mean hands up but just enough for control and leave some brake till the end.<br /><br />I gotta stop using that term.<br /><br />That's what these write ups are for so everyone can get there 2 cents in, the more info we have the safer we can fly.Thomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07508629374134042936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-15705492038359256042010-12-01T09:20:43.367-10:002010-12-01T09:20:43.367-10:00Glad you're back and flying! thanks for sharin...Glad you're back and flying! thanks for sharing, we appreciate it! <br />If I may add, preparing for landing (specially on unfamiliar places) includes getting off the seated position on your harness to put your landing gear (feet) down... DO IT EARLY! I know you were already at position, but this is just a reminder for all pilots. <br />Speed is your friend and yes, you want to keep some pressure and wing feel with the breaks. Also, keep a GOOD LZ at gliding distance all the times if you are flying conservatively, which should be the case with a new toy (wing) or new situations such as xc, conditions, state of mind and etc...<br />Speaking of practice, some spin landings can save you from a crash in a tight LZ. practice it first close to the ground, preferably at a soft or sandy lz (kahana). I did not check this on the pg forum, but I can attest from experience at diamond head one night... I'm gonna get my flame suit now... laters<br /><br />Aloha<br />Brazilian RayBrazilian Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436342581028804698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-56786197841159395582010-12-01T09:16:49.553-10:002010-12-01T09:16:49.553-10:00Good writeup Thom! Beeman is right, you should def...Good writeup Thom! Beeman is right, you should definitely get an x-ray or something to be sure your back is really okay. <br /><br />Jeff makes a good point about brakes and active flying. It's not about making a hands-up approach. There are a zillion in-depth discussions on this subject on the paragliding forum that are worth reading. <br /><br />It's hard to know all the factors that contribute to an incident like this - I know I rarely remember the details of mine. But it's a good bet that if you were descending into a yard and trying to slow the wing down to avoid a rapidly approaching tree line at the end of your runway, your wing could have stalled as it transitioned from an area of wind to an area of no wind behind those trees. That's a super common scenario. You have to raise your hands to let the wing fly, which is counterintutive because you are hoping to avoid zooming into those trees. But better to zoom in and flare with some authority than to have your wing stall and drop you when you're still high enough to get hurt.<br /><br />And about the "bowl" you flew back into - it may not be clear to everyone that you're referring to the back of Haiku Valley above the H3 tunnel. Most pilots will arrive at the Stairway to Heaven and stop there to work the tall ridge with the stairs (Puu Keahi A Kahoe), before crossing in front of the valley to continue downrange. If you're getting low on that ridge, then you should probably just head out. I would never suggest venturing back into that deep and low valley. I think that valley is too deep and the back of it is too low to be any use getting up and across to the Kahaluu side of the valley. If there's any wind (which would be most days we fly past there) that valley will act as a huge venturi because of how it dips so low in the back. And there are no good bombout landing zones in the back there, notwithstanding the fact that I've seen one nutty pilot land back there when he couldn't penetrate back out. Stick to the big peaks out front! They are often very good thermal collectors.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06249789335111913420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-45768807504274643112010-12-01T08:59:29.759-10:002010-12-01T08:59:29.759-10:00Glad to hear that you are back on your horse! Good...Glad to hear that you are back on your horse! Good timing as it looks like it's going to be windy for the next several days. Thanks for the write up and the reminders to fly and land safe! See you in the air soon :-)MauiDougnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-85207421810013492802010-12-01T08:45:52.958-10:002010-12-01T08:45:52.958-10:00Thanks for the write-up Thom - glad to hear you...Thanks for the write-up Thom - glad to hear you're on the mend.<br /><br />I know it's oft stated, but I respectfully disagree with the "hands up on final" as a blanket statement being the best way to land. If by "hands up", you mean the pressure of your hanging arms, then I'd agree with that. But I'm afraid most people understand it as "100% hands up, 0% brake", and to me that's just not a good idea.<br /><br />If I'm landing into a rotory area, you can bet your arse I'm going to be actively piloting. That's HOW you prevent collapses - with the brakes. The balancing act, to me, is to use them sparingly... enough to (try) maintain your desired speed and glide, but while still being able to feel the wing through the brakes so you can keep it "open" in the event of weird air that could cause a collapse. BUT ALSO... to NOT gradually use up the whole range until you stall it high off the ground (as it sounds like you did, Thom?).<br /><br />It's quite a bit like kiting in a rotory spot: Sometimes you go hands up or close to it if the wing feels like it's falling back, and sometimes you "check" it heavily with the brakes - sometimes even on only one side - to prevent the wing from collapsing or stalling. THAT is active piloting, and you should be ready to do it at all times including, and perhaps especially, while landing (IMHO).<br /><br />This thread from PG forum comes to mind:<br /><br />http://paraglidingforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=216789#195594<br /><br />I like these two quotes in particular:<br /><br />James Bradley: "Hands all the way up means nobody's home"<br />Adrian Thomas: "Not all landings are equal. Therefore there is no right way to approach a landing"<br /><br />OK, 2 cents dispensed. Flame suit on :)<br /><br />Aloha,<br />-JeffJeffMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08647210759297211493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-21562296885583360212010-12-01T08:19:33.018-10:002010-12-01T08:19:33.018-10:00Thom,
Thanks for the coffee read! Your analysis a...Thom,<br />Thanks for the coffee read! Your analysis and deliberation in looking at the incident shows that you are at least taking it seriously. I appreciate the writeup and the lesson. Hopefully it is one that not many of us will ever have to learn directly.Ducknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20110414.post-67110454446047337322010-12-01T05:03:52.064-10:002010-12-01T05:03:52.064-10:00good posting ,Tom. Hope you get yourself checked o...good posting ,Tom. Hope you get yourself checked out to be sure something isn't lingering 'back there'. It took 6 months for the bone spure in my ancle to become visable on a 'cat' scan ,but I felt it very soon after my accident at work. <br />Aloha,<br />'one hopeful to an" old pilot" '<br />thebeemanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com